Joya speaks out against Canadian occupation
March 17, 2008. Malalai Joya spoke to me during a phone interview from Boston. Her English is strong - at times, broken. Her voice was incredibly impassioned, swaying from sadness to anger as she described the situation in her country, her drive for democracy, and the growing fear for her life.
It seems we’re here in Afghanistan until 2011. So what would you say to Canada’s role in Afghanistan right now? What would you say to Canadians?
First of all, thanks a lot for this interview that, on behalf of men and women of Afghanistan, who both do not have liberation at all right now. Regarding Canada’s role in Afghanistan, unfortunately after the 9/11 tragedy, U.S. and its allies occupied our country under the name of democracy, women’s rights and human rights […] The U.S. and it’s allies including Canada support this non-democratic, warlord, drug-lord government, which after 9/11 tragedy, the Northern Alliance fundamentalists came in power who are physically different from the Taliban but mentally the same.
They come in power, they talk about democracy, women’s rights, human rights, but they do not believe it. That’s why today Afghanistan is one of the biggest producers of opium. As the UN announced, 93 per cent of opium is produced in Afghanistan, it even reaches the streets of New York and Europe. And also, today the government is the most corrupt and warlord, drug-lord government. The billions of dollars that the Afghanistan government received from the ‘so called’ international community, but today, only 2 per cent of people have access to electricity. And I think it’s a shame for U.S. and it’s allies that today, in this situation, moms in Afghanistan are ready to sell their daughters for only $10. And according to officials there are 250 suicide cases have been reported in the first six months of 2007. According to official figures, 60 per cent of Afghanistans live below the poverty line. Many examples like this. In this winter, a thousand people died because of cold weather.
When we don’t have security under the U.S.’s thousands of troops, how should we talk about democracy, women’s rights, human rights? These values. Even today also happened a suicide bomb in Helmand province, which there […] there is lots of Taliban. […] But we have many democrats in Afghanistan […] Many examples like this that our people, day by day, we believe that the U.S. and allies of U.S. including Canada pushed us from the frying pan into the fire. If U.S. government wants to be honest for the Afghan people and also the Canadian government, they must stop the support for the Northern Alliance Fundamentalists in Afghanistan. At least after seven years, it’s not too late. […]
Democratic minded peoples, parties and intellectuals in Afghanistan - today they are very weak. The international communities must get over and stop countries like Iran, Pakistan and Russia, Uzbekistan, etcetera, who support Taliban and also the Northern Alliance. Today people are sandwiched between two powerful enemies - the Taliban, who are anti-U.S. terrorists, Northern Alliance, who are pro-U.S. terrorists. And today they want to give more chance to the Taliban, these people, if Taliban also come more into power, the circle of warlords and drug-lords and terrorism will be complete, and the victim is innocent people of Afghanistan. That’s why we are saying we don’t want occupation, we want liberation. And it’s true that no nation can donate liberation to another nation.
This is the responsibility of our own people to bring democracy, women’s rights and human rights in our country. But at these catastrophic moments in Afghanistan, as I told you a few examples, we need the helping hand of democratic minded people, parties, intellectuals around the world, including Canada. They musts join their hands with their democrat sisters and brothers and suffering people of Afghanistan to support them. Not this warlord, drug-lord government. And regarding the troops of Canada, I want to tell you not only in Canada, other NATO countries who have troops and also even the U.S., I think these troops - first of all, they are the victims of wrong policy of their government, because they send them to Afghanistan to support this non-democratic warlord government. Ordinary people are the victims. For example, Michael O’Neil [Director of Security for Save the Children ?], he himself said that today, 70 per cent of Afghanistan is lawless. That government of Afghanistan has control only to 3 per cent, but I’m telling you, on behalf of my people that the government has no control outside of Kabul because of this government. Even our people are saying Karzai is like the mayor of Kabul.
Maybe an example, Serena Hotel, which is one of the safest and most expensive hotels in Kabul that foreigners and politicians from outside are coming, it has been attacked by Taliban. Even Taliban arrived in the back of the doors of Kabul. And it’s ridiculous for a superpower country like the U.S. and allies of the U.S., about forty countries including Canada, that they cannot disarm the medieval minds of cruel people like the Taliban - these terrorist people, and today the Northern Alliance are more risky than Taliban, because they are power and they control Afghanistan, and Canada and also other NATO countries who have troops in Afghanistan they follow the footpath of the U.S., which is a mockery of democracy, and a mockery of war on terror.
For example, professor Markus, a great American supporter of Afghanistan, he made a website. You can see on his website that he put pictures of those victims after the 9/11 tragedy, that most ordinary, even children, have been killed […] And when you compare it with the Taliban period, this is many times more than when Taliban ruled. And regarding conditions of women, for example, under the name of women’s rights they attacked women […] The situation of women is worse than ever. For example, a woman in Laghman province recently she burnt herself in front of the court because nobody listened to her voice, and her husband drew violence against her. For example, last month, five-year-old girl, she has been raped […] Right now she’s in very bad condition of health in a hospital. And also, 14-year-old girl from school going to her house, by three men has been kidnapped very recently and raped. And one of these men was the son of a warlord, a so-called member of parliament […] Many of examples of this regarding conditions of women. Many rape cases, for example. Activist women have been killed in Afghanistan for example. Safia Amajan, a great activist, has been killed […] Nadia Anjuman, a great poet in Herat has been killed. This list can be prolonged that activist women have been killed.
Other shocking news regarding the condition of women is Sanobar, 11-year-old daughter of a widow. She has been kidnapped in Kondoz province last year, then raped, then exchanged for a dog. In many shocking news regarding women that day by day are getting worse, and media never giving reports. Only some big cities like Heart, like Mazar-i Sharif, like Kabul, that some women and girls have access to jobs and education. They are giving reports to people around the world. But even in these provinces they are wearing burkas because of security. I wear a burka because of security. [But in other provinces] the situation is worse than ever. They don’t have security. Many examples like this of the situation getting worse and day by day our people believe that our country has been occupied by U.S. and allies of U.S. including Canada […] If they really want to be honest for Afghan people, they must change this policy.
Canadian government […] they should try to support democratic minded people of Afghanistan, and I’m sending my condolences on behalf of my people to those families who lost their sons in Afghanistan. I think 20, more than 20, innocent soldiers of Canada have been killed in Afghanistan. So my message on behalf of my people, to these suffering families, these that have lost their dears in Afghanistan, that please do not sit silent. Raise your voice against this act of your government, to change this policy, and try to support a democratic minded people, parties and intellectuals in Afghanistan.
Malalai Joya, I really do appreciate your time. You’re in Boston now, yes?
Yes, I’m in Boston now. I will have speeches in some universities here.
Please enjoy the rest of your time. We’re grateful for everything that you’re doing.
Thank you. I have many, many examples to tell you. For example, they are saying that U.S. want $2.5 trillion in Iraq and also Afghanistan. From that much money […] it’s not only possible to change Afghanistan and Iraq, it’s also possible to destroy poverty in the world, but they are not honest. And also that much money from the international community that they spend on Afghanistan, the so-called international community, today instead of one Afghanistan with a democratic government, it would be possible to build two Afghanistans. Many examples like this.
For example, the Canadian government is saying we made some schools in Afghanistan, some clinics. We need to do things like this, and we need this financial support, but even we need more. But most of this money is going to the warlord, drug-lord governments […] And ordinary people don’t benefit from this. In another hand, for example, we have some schools, but when they don’t have security, how can the children and girls go to school? So that’s why we are saying please change your policy. This is not the solution, that you follow this wrong policy of the U.S. […]
Day by day, people are doing demonstrations against foreign troops, and also against this non-democratic government, Taliban also. […] This is the policy of the U.S., to stay longer in Afghanistan. […] And today Afghanistan is looking like a dead body that every one of these countries want to have their own piece […] We want to have a liberation and we need a helping hand of democratic minded people around the world. For example, they’re talking about democracy. Democracy means government of the people for the people, but an elementary part of democracy is freedom of speech, which we don’t have here, freedom of press, which we don’t have, we have jungle law in Afghanistan. Everything is on paper.
For example, four times they feed the journalists inside parliament saying we have freedom of speech in the constitution. And now Parvez Kambakhsh is a great journalist of Afghanistan […] and his brother is a great journalist, Yaqub Ebrahimi, right now because they exposed the crimes of warlords on their newspaper, so they put Parvez Kambakhsh in jail and they want to hang. And still Parvez Kambakhsh is a young journalist, 22 years old, and he’s in jail. We want to be free. I’m asking all democratic people of Canada that please, raise your voice against this fascist act of this non-democratic government that Parvez Kambakhsh must be free because they want to close the mouths of other democrat journalists in Afghanistan.
They expelled me from Parliament just for telling the truth, and tomorrow they may expel another member of Parliament, which is completely an illegal act, and anti-freedom of speech. And now they banned me to go out. They took my passport in Kabul. But people […] made another passport for me. That’s why now I do trips outside, because of the strong support of people that, day by day, I understand how much I’m right with the strong support of democratic people around the world who are giving their voice and supporting us.
And they banned me completely from media, just because of telling the truth. Nobody does interviews with me in Afghanistan. And before, in the past, when they did, they censored my interviews. Many examples like this that at this moment, really, we need your support and solidarity as much as you can morally and materially. And today I need your practical support. For example, I have bodyguards and the government do not give me money and do not support me, and people they give their lands to me to build schools for them. I can’t built for them. They need computer course, money problems they have, but with empty hands I can do nothing for them, and day by day my life is getting more risky. And I’m not sure, now that I’m going from here, what will happen with me. […]
They banned me to go out, and money problems […] I need your material support as much as you can. You should give my website to people of Canada. At these moments I need their practical support for bringing violence like women’s rights, human rights, democracy in my country. I’m risking my life for my people, and I’m ready to do these kinds of sacrifices for them. And you should tell them they can destroy all of the flowers but they will never stop the Spring. One day we will have democracy, women’s rights, human rights in our country, but please help us.
Thank you Ms. Joya.
Sorry, I have a lot to say you know.
No please, I would encourage you to spend as much time as you can with me. You mentioned that another member of Parliament tomorrow was going to be expelled. Who is this?
What I mean is that today they expelled me. If the international community needs democratic people around the world and in Canada, if U.K. people do not raise their voice against this non-democratic act of parliament. Today they expelled me, tomorrow it will be easy for them to expel another democrat, which there are very few, we can count them.
Most members of parliament are not real representatives. As I said, this parliament is more worse than animals, it’s like a zoo. People are sending me emails, Malalai, why are you calling them animals - these warlords, drug-lords, criminals who are in parliament? You must apologize when to animals you compare them […] But now, these fundamentalists want to face me to court, which now there is no justice. And I told them, I’m ready to face the court, but in a court where there will be justice, and there will be international observers, human rights defenders - I will be there, and I challenge them not only to the national court, to the international criminal court, which is a prolonged struggle and risky struggle. That’s why, day by day, they count the days to eliminate me, to kill me. And four times they do assassinations and I don’t know how many more they will do, and I’m well aware of all of these harshness. […] Even inside Parliament one fundamentalist MP saying, when they expelled me, I will put bomb on myself and I will eliminate her. And day by day I receive more threats. This time I went in Kabul. Many telephone [calls] I received threats, they call me. And now changing houses, can’t have office, it’s a big problem […]
Day by day I believe that power of people is like power of God. That’s why we need the helping hand of democrats, great people, men and women, human right activists around the world - that the criminals of Afghanistan, that nine per cent of them by Human Rights Watch has been announced that they’re wanted criminals. They are like Pinochet, Hitler […] Mussolini, etcetera. They also must face court one day. They’re fascists. Same like Taliban, they are.
What more can we do as Canadians?
Great nations always, they are separate from government, especially wrong policy makers. We are so honoured that we have strong supporters in France and Canada and also in U.S., and also in Europe, around the world. And we’re proud for them, but it’s not enough. As I said, we need them morally and materially for support.
Morally, please raise your voice against the wrong policy of U.S. government, which at least there you have democracy. You’re government must listen to your voice […] There was a big rally in Los Angeles, I attended. The anti-war supporters, people of U.S. […] I left my message to them and now I leave my message to the people of Canada that please, put pressure on your government to stop this wrong policy, to support the democratic minded people, parties and intellectuals of Afghanistan. That today, they are very weak […]
For example, today women and girls are going outside and men in bad situations of security, even if there’s a bomb […] they do demonstrations. For example, recently for Kambakhsh, they did a demonstration for a great journalist who is right now in jail, and his life is at risk […] Only one hour before this demonstration there was a suicide bomber, but people attended this demonstration. And these are steps towards democracy. For example, these women in their burkas go outside, they do demonstrations. If they will have education, they will play their role better than today.
And when they expelled me from Parliament […] in some provinces like Herat […] people didn’t allow people to do demonstrations-warlord commanders, governors who are in power. You can see on my website that these women and men and girls are going outside and doing demonstrations. All of these are steps and hopes toward democracy and for the future of Afghanistan. So we need more schools, more electricity courses, more computer courses, today’s internet, more hospitals, clinics. But unfortunately most of the money from the so-called international community falls into the pockets of these warlords, drug-lords non-democratic governments. We need your help morally and materially, financially support to democratic people, parties and intellectuals that are all today very weak. The government do not support them.
Is there anything else you’d like to add Ms. Joya?
Yes, I have a lot to say […] I think now, at least that’s some examples, but if you want more, I’m ready to say more.
Sure. You definitely answered my questions, but I’d love to hear more. So whatever you have to add, please do.
Thank you. I have to go for another interview, and they’re waiting. I have more though, I’ll tell you. For example, English people are saying we want to be 36 years in Afghanistan. Other people are saying it’s ridiculous for a superpower country like U.S. and allies […] Who destroyed the domination of the Taliban? And who brought back into power these Northern Alliance fundamentalists? The U.S. and right now right now allies of the U.S. who follow this wrong policy of U.S., which is a mockery of democracy, a mockery of war on terror […] It’s a clear example of occupation. Now they must not be in Afghanistan.
As I told you it was possible to build two Afghanistans instead of one Afghanistan […] Today our people have two kinds of enemies. One is the Taliban and Northern Alliance fundamentalists […] today they are in power, and another enemy is the wrong policy - the government of U.S. and alliance of U.S. who follow the wrong policy of U.S.. So our people are sandwiched between two powerful enemies. That’s why we are saying we need the help democratic minded people around the world as the U.S. occupy our country under the name of democracy. They give a bad view about democracy to our people, you know.
Our people they believe in democracy and they believe that democracy is not saying to kill people, to rape women, to burn their schools, to destroy the country, like the same way they committed many crimes in the past in the name of Islam, these fundamentalists, also Taliban, also under the name of democracy, they continue their fascism under the name of Islam, also this so-called democracy, and the international community also they brought the sworn enemies of democracy, woman’s rights, human rights in Afghanistan that continue their fascism and they don’t give a good view of democracy to most of the non-educated people of Afghanistan who suffer. That’s why they must change their policy.
It’s a shameful government of the U.S. and you should say to your government that now, that much money from your government is going there, and moms sell their daughters for only $10. It’s shocking, but nobody is giving this news to the world including the good people of Canada.
Hello?
Yes, sorry, I’m a slow writer.
No, no, please, and I’m talking very fast!
One thing, if you add why for example I compare them to animals. For example, no animal will rape their girls, no animal will kill their people, no animal will be a drug-lord. […] Today Afghanistan is the biggest producer of opium. For example, inside Parliament, alone in Kabul these fundamentalists, most of them enjoying Parliament, they killed 65,000 innocent people. Any animals do like this? Of course not. So that’s why I compared it to a zoo, and I stress on my comments.
As long as these warlords stay in power, the situation will be worse, another September 11 will happen in the world. Everyday to our people is a September 11. They must stop this wrong policy and not shed the blood of innocent people of Afghanistan, and I’m happy that people are with me. There are very suffering people, very poor people, and hopeless people. They are with me and together we struggle against them. But we need helping hand of democratic people around the world.
And you know, when I said this Parliament is like a zoo, one TV that censored my interview when I said that this Parliament there is two groups-one is democrat, one is non-democrat. Non-democrat majority seats belong to them […] Democrats are few. Men and women, even we can count them. […] This TV censored my interview about democrats, only they put my interview about non-democrats, which I said because of these non-democrat warlord, drug-lords, members of parliament it’s like a zoo. Then they used it against me. My interview was censored and worked against me, but another TV asks questions. They asked people around Afghanistan, do you agree with Joya when she says this Parliament is like a zoo? And people sent messages said yes, 20 per cent said yes. They asked another question, are you angry with Joya that she go back to Parliament. 90 per cent said no, 10 per cent said no. But when journalists are going and asking directly people, of course they are afraid, and they are right because they will kill them if they show them on TV.
But people hate them, do not support them. Many memories I have that how much people hate these warlords. At least you can see the movies of Enemies of Happiness, the campaign of Parliamentary elections which was non-democratic elections under the feet of the Afghan warlords, drug-lords, but people did campaign for me and it shows a small support of people in this that how much they support, old generations and young generations […]
You can put my website and if they have any questions they should ask, and you should tell people to raise their voice against government for Kambakhsh, you know. You should write this clearly. You should tell them, let’s do demonstration. Let’s send letters to this non-democratic government to court of Afghanistan, to raise your voice against this act of government that Kambakhsh must be free from the jail. People are waiting for him to be free.
He’s 22 years old?
22, 23 like this yes. Very young. Just because of an article he took from an Iranian women, which is about women and Islam. Because these fundamentalists use Islam against our people that’s why. They put him in jail and they want to close out other democratic journalists. And you should write clearly in your article that Joya said I believe in secularism, my people believe in secularism, and as long as these warlords are in power I continue my struggle. When we have a secular government, these fundamentalists, everyone who will be in power, nobody will be able to continue their fascism under the name of Islam. Now they mix politics with Islam and use it as a weapon against our people, especially democratic minded activists and women.
Thank you for your time, I really do appreciate it. I will send everybody to your website and I’ll also be sure to spread this article as far as I can to all of the newspapers I know here and send it to all of my friends and make sure it really gets out across the country. We had protests all over at the same time as the protests in L.A. There were protest taking place across Canada. I was at the protest. There were around 200 people in Montreal. In Vancouver there were hundreds, so it’s starting to rise.
Be proud, be proud for all of us. All of us are in the same pot […] We don’t have human rights right now. Thank you very much, I’m so honoured. I don’t know how to thank you on behalf of my people. Thank you.
Well I thank you very much, and good luck with the rest of your stay and your interviews.
Thank you, thank you. Bye for now. Bye, bye, thank you.
